Abuse is normal

in #abuse6 months ago

This is something I've been saying for years, and I think the history of Bitcoin and its usage has a good track record of it, albeit people didn't know any better back then knowing how easy it is to trace bitcoin transactions and thinking it was "anonymous". Most of the early initial usage for bitcoin was drug trafficking and gambling, one could say the latter is still a majority usage of its daily transactions seeing as there's quite literally nothing else you can do with it than store your money and speculate on its future price.

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What's prompting me to write this post was a recent report someone had noticed a farm ring that had been using @peakd's snaps recently. As some of you active there may know, at the end of the week when the container of a peak snap pays out it goes to @commentrewarder and tips all the users based on certain unreleased metrics, most likely based on engagement and voting activity placed by others. This ring had received some rewards from those tips because due to the large activity of snaps (over 600 per day), the creators had opted to automate the tip distribution process rather than manually curating it. I don't really think there's anything wrong with that given the quantity of snaps and the large spread of tips - even the most active accounts I doubt make more than a couple $ in tips.

The thing that annoyed me were comments like "this service enables abuse".

First of all, what doesn't enable abuse in this day and age?

Stomping on a service/tool because a small minority of it can get abused, and in this case mainly due to the fact that its being automated, is not the right way to think about things in my opinion. It's kind of a big stifle on innovation if your first thought is to attempt to combat and put down the service itself just cause a tiny fraction of users attempt to abuse it.

In this case a simple solution is to have the account in charge of distributing the tips blacklist the accounts attempting to milk a few tips with fake engagement. It really was not a lot of value being drained either by the looks of it:

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I kind of noticed some time ago an increase in new accounts posting to snaps but due to lack of time I didn't go into depth to check if they were a ring orchastrated by one person to attempt to sybil attack tips by pretending to be many people. This was recently brought forward that it was the case.

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Another thing I think would be nice is if peakd could add a reputation number next to account's on snaps as well so we could be more careful with who we vote there and if need be report abusive accounts to not receive commentrewarder tips by the automated distribution system.

Either way, I kind of welcome any and all new services, ideas and projects being created on hive because there may be some value there. I'd argue that abuse is normal as long as you can combat it itself rather than attempting to boycott or prematurely shut down the service itself just because some of it may happen. We can't be perfect when it comes to these things, I'd reckon we're still far from perfect in terms of curation as well and there's room for improvement there.

In general, I'm quite happy with how well commentrewarder has been used and the additional usecases people have come up with using it for such as marketing by @hive-echo and @coldbeetrootsoup, etc.

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Want me to do more digging in my comment analytics? :D I'm sure I could find more, haha

I definitely agree with adding a reputation number

Yes, comment rewarder is a good service and people should make sure it is not abused instead of shutting down the service. People would try to abuse anything that pays out rewards, so you have to pay attention to what is going on and adjust accordingly.

I didn't know about commenterrewarder until I was rewarded last week guess for being active.

As you said, everything will always be abused as long as we're still dealing with human beings.

People will always see loopholes and use them for their benefit(ie abuse)

As you stated, maybe adding the Reputation tag could help

Commentrewarder is a great tool if you can't pass the dust threshold, blame it is just laughable... It can be fixed by just blacklist the accounts

Everything can be abused, the front end allows self vote (well hive itself does), let's close all front ends enabling this! One can make multiple accounts and farm, let's close the free account creation services!

It's inevitable that these issues arise, have occurred in the past, and will likely happen again. While the amounts involved are small, taking action now can make it more challenging for abusers. On #Hive-Echo, users are tagging alt accounts they likely created to gain extra rewards. To address this, we'll introduce new rules for future CTAs, such as requiring a minimum reputation score, a minimum number of articles written, or a minimum HP holding. These are just examples, but since we manually review every comment, implementation is feasible. For Snaps, displaying reputation scores immediately would be helpful, as currently, users must hover over an avatar to view them. Alternatively, @hivetrending could add code to exclude filtered snaps when posting Snaps into Discord.

I'm not sure what you mean about posting Snaps into Discord. Are you referring to the GOSH snaps?

Yes, Gosh Snaps

I don't think spam gosh snaps is the main problem being discussed. It seems like the main problem is accounts farming the peak-snaps auto-upvotes.

Ok, woops missunderstood again 🙄 hmz, yeah thats indeed an interesting problem.

It’s not really a brand-new type of abuse, or rather misuse – people have been comment-farming for ages. A good portion of replies I receive on my high reward posts are likely AI generated, or just too generic to be relevant. I lack time for Snaps lately, but this circle engagement is similar to what many others do in less apparent manner – you too likely get many brief, vaguely related replies on your snaps. And frankly, if someone publishes say 20+ snap/waves/thread replies a day (and doesn’t engage in an ongoing conversation under several of them), it’s pretty the same approach, except perhaps teeny-tiny more social.

Also, if the “profit” is like two dollars a day, then it’s not really abusive to me – that’s more or less what a simple Actifit report of an established user earns.

When there is money to be gained, there will be abuse. Unfortunately.
Although it often is difficult to determine abuse based on comments only (AI gets better every day), I think you can track down abuse by a 'follow the money' principle.

It's sad that we have to spend time to combat this, but rewards of great initiatives like @commentrewarder should go to the ones that deserve that.

I see @holoz0r has already reacted on this post too. He has dived in comment stats recently. His research may be of some help here too.

@acidyo Greetings, brother, very good post explaining things as they are. There will always be aspects to improve, since almost every system devised by men always has a margin of error. The important thing is to know how to move forward... Keep up the excellent work... A big hug.

Greetings, I think I understand:

There are users who have multiple accounts and interact a lot on snaps, and commentrewarder automatically votes on those who post snaps. These users who have multiple fake accounts are favored? Is that correct?

They're not really favored, by the looks of it I doubt they even understand what's happening as they stopped using snaps pretty quickly and started spamming leo threads instead to get their votes.

It's just that peak.snaps votes automatically so it can't detect when someone is generating fake/spam snaps so they also earn some tips and people then start instantly blaming the service just because a tiny % gets some rewards that shouldn't have gotten.

Those fake accounts are manual, right? If they're manual, they're doing a lot of laborious work. Do you think it's worth all that work for them? In terms of rewards?

It very much isn't, they'd be way better off focusing on one account and trying to do some good for the ecosystem instead like you!

I guessed from the picture, if they'd used all that abuse to do things right, or at least try, maybe they'd do better. But my grandmother used to say:
"Every mind is a world."

Good night friend

First of all, what doesn't enable abuse in this day and age?

Trueeee.

I think it is appropriate to blacklist as a punishment against fake engagement.

Yep, somebody posted about those multi accounts last week. You can even see the trail of Hive they transfer to one account.

You're right. Commentrewarder is still a brilliant idea. I've actually discovered some cool creators through it too!

I agree with you. New projects keep Hive evolving and abuse will always exist, better to improve systems than kill innovation. Commentrewarder, first time hearing of that though. It's good to choose progress over perfection

You're absolutely right, man. Anyone who finds even the slightest loophole in the system does everything they can to exploit it. That's not right, but it's the truth. I compare it to playing with a tiny hole in a T-shirt with your finger and making it huge. Because it might be so small that no one would notice it, and if you don't touch it, no one will even know it's there. But if you try to stick your finger in it, the T-shirt becomes unwearable.

I'm Happy someone took the time to dig into it, because this is blockchain and freedom brings as much good as bad. These kinds of coordinated attacks really mess with trust in the system sadly. Thanks for bringing it to light.

Most of the early initial usage for Bitcoin was drug trafficking and gambling

And now, in 2025, we have the founder of one of the largest drug trafficking sites pardoned.

I haven't used snaps recently, so I was not aware that such abuse was happening, but I agree that rather than shutting down a project because some users abuse it, finding ways to mitigate it is the way we should proceed.

Great take abuse can happen anywhere, but that shouldn't kill innovation. It's smarter to improve the system than to shut it down. Love the balanced perspective!

I agree. As progress is made, solutions to problems that arise can come. A blacklist for those who are seen to be abusive is a very good idea, for example.
I was thinking about the title of your publication... and I transferred it to life in general and as everything always has two sides, even an edge, (thinking of a coin) and we have free will to choose where to be... well, there are people for everything.

Abuse is inevitable when there's money to be made. The cost of automating posting it pretty low and things like ChatGPT can produce 'content'. We may just need a few people keeping an eye on things so that the abusers get blacklisted quickly. What we don't want is to penalise genuine newbies.

It seems a bit complicated and very laborious to have so many accounts.

Greetings, these are people who have a lot of free time and nothing to do and want to take advantage of others.

Hi, a good way to solve this would be to create a trusted team that manually selects comments that will receive rewards based on certain criteria. Once verified, approved users are verified with some kind of reputation, allowing them to have some sort of oversight.

Leaving aside those users who are dubious or believed to be fake.

yea. they are pretty genius.. whoever automated that..

HAPPY DAD'S DAY!! :)

Exactly. People still think crypto is untraceable when it's literally all on a public ledger. The whole digital cash narrative was always BS, it's just speculation with extra steps at this point.

You may wanna look into privacy coins.

oh 🙄😒 should have done my research before talking 🤣

I could see displaying the reputation number. Ecency doesn't display reputation either. I can see arguments either way.