I want to cover off on a couple points before I start so that we're all on the same page, and I also want to acknowledge that my title isn't very creative.
For the sake of clarity, here's a basic definition of what censorship actually is: "A system in which an authority limits the ideas that people are allowed to express and prevents books, films, works of art, documents, or other kinds of communication from being seen or made available to the public, or the act of doing the same." [Cambridge Dictionary]
Secondly, and to avoid any possibility for ambiguity, censorship does not occur on Hive.
I read a post by @calendulacraft about how she's been contacted and invited to other platforms due to the censorship that occurs on Hive - Remember what I said above, it doesn't happen, but some misuse the word I guess hoping to stir up drama or support and undermine Hive.
One of those platforms in particular is a wasteland of Hive-rejects who mostly destroyed their Hive accounts through abusing the system and other users, spamming, reward farming and in other ways that were counter-productive to the community in general. They band together and talk about how terrible Hive is, how censored, and how horrible people like me are for various reasons; more about that later.
But censorship doesn't happen and none of those accounts have been censored on Hive, some even still post on Hive despite saying how terrible it is. Nutbags.
Anyway, here's a couple real-world examples.
Example One:
There was a user who didn't like an English only rule I'd set in my first community, the WEEKEND EXPERIENCES community.
You see, because it is mine I'm able to set a few guidelines and enforce them because I want the community to appeal to everyone and to appear a certain way, I'll not apologies for that and if people don't like it they are under no obligation to post there. Failure to follow my guidelines is essentially like coming into my home and spitting on the floor - and I'd deal with that without a hint of mercy or compassion. So coming into my community and writing in a language other than English (or in dual language) or failing to follow any other guidelines is not tolerated - I mute those posts. I generally let people know and give them a chance to edit and if they do (and let me know about it) I'll unmute the post and often throw in an upvote. That's what I did with the fellow I mention, he had a chance to edit...but wanted to escalate the matter. I obliged.
That account was destroyed over it and all because the user didn't want to edit their post into English (ego and hubris I presume). I was called racist, a Nazi, white trash (I'm not white and calling my white trash is actually a racist comment right?) and other such things and that person also started in on my partner as well with some pretty terrible dialogues and behaviours...and that particular account now has a reputation score of -11 which means every post and comment is instantly hidden...but that's not censorship.
You see, the posts or comments are still there for all to see, they're just initially hidden. If a person was to click on any of them the original content would be there in its entirity...so it's not at all censored, it's right there, but "currently hidden." I'll say it again, it...is...still...there.
Example two:
Now to another thing some call censorship on Hive, the downvote.
Rewards do not belong to "the author" until after the seven day payout and until just before payout can be added to or subtracted from; an up or downvote doesn't edit or remove the text or images from the post or comment, it simply adjusts the amount of reward possible, up or down. So, a downvote isn't censorship, just a redistribution of potential rewards back to the reward pool so others may than share from it; people see a downvote as an assault on their ego I guess, but it's certainly not censorship.
I've been asked a few times about why I have deployed a downvote and I reply to find out if they have ever asked why someone has bestowed an upvote on them...of course, no one has ever done that. People downvote for various reasons and I'll not get into it here because downvotes are not censorship and this post is about censorship, and the fact that it doesn't occur on Hive. Also, because the blockchain is not censored, people can choose to act as they please.
Example three:
I often mute people in my communities and that sometimes drives them fucken crazy. I'm ok with that. You see, if someone abuses me, calls me a Nazi or a fuckin gay cunt for instance do you think I'd invite them into my home? (No is the answer). So, why would I welcome them in my community? Muted. (But that's not censorship.) I don't mind what people call me as I'm comfortable with who I am and most who say things like the above literally don't matter, but out of principle, and for the preservation of the look and feel of my communities, I address it...because the blockchain gives me the freedom to do so, just as they have the freedom to act as they do.
Their comment or post is still on the Blockchain forever (even though they sometimes realise their error, feel remorseful, and delete it) - It's still there to be found so...yeah, it's not censored.
They can still vomit their hateful vitriol and like-minded people (everyone in fact) who tend to flock together can all see it, celebrate it and comment about how witty and clever and powerful they are. All the while, they sink deeper into the abyss they self-create. It must be a terrible place for them, inside their own hearts and minds, that are so reluctant to move forward.
The user I mention above used to talk about freedom a lot, the freedom to say and post anything...and I agreed totally, utterly and one hundred percent with that user.
However, the caveat is that the same freedom that user is entitled to and enjoys extends to everyone else as well, and that means me too. You have the same freedom as well which means that you can mute my account from your feed, upvote, downvote, comment or not comment as you see fit. I cannot stop you, or force you into it either; you're free to choose. Your actions or words are not censored.
The sad thing is, a few bad eggs choose to use their freedom in self-serving ways which negatively impact others and Hive in general: Spam posting and self-voting multiple own-posts or comments every day for instance, many other things too. Sad indeed. But, because freedom is for everyone, others have the ability to choose how to react and it's no surprise that people like me who actually like Hive and want to see it succeed and want to support those good actors out there end up using our freedom to react when those bad actors reveal themselves. Freedom for all! Splendid.
I've seen dialogues (from these bad actors) about "good users being turned away from the platform" but are they good? A good user would apologise for not following community rules, edit the post and be unmuted and upvoted. A bad? Well, they call names and offer reprisal downvotes - that usually have no value because they extract all their rewards rather than finding a balance between supporting the community and taking away some reward as well.
Anyway, I could write several thousand words on this but I think you get the idea...those that read it anyway which is probably very few and there's no point belabouring the point. But I'll say it again...you have the freedom to act as you please on Hive and will not be censored...but that same freedom you enjoy applies to others as well and they can use it as they like...just like you.
I started here in mid-June 2017 and enjoy it and I think most normal people who see my posts, some of the concepts I've created and run, the support I've given to other people's concepts and communities and individuals themselves, they'd at least feel that I have put in a lot of effort, time and personal emotional investment; that doesn't make me special but it does make me feel like I want to protect what's been created here, and so I use my freedom to do so.
Do I want to see censorship on Hive? No.
Is Hive censored? No.
Do you have the freedom to act as you like? Yes.
Do others have the same freedom? Yes.
But there's always going to be those disgruntled few who throw around words like censorship and freedom and skew and distort those concepts to suit their own ends. Most of those are on that other platform calendulacraft mentions in her post and that's just where they belong; a group of malcontents spinning stories and fabrications of censorship, being downtrodden and others impinging upon their "right to freedom"...all the while seeking to impinge upon the freedom those others have a right to it as well. I get it, they don't like Hive...so fuck off and don't come back. But they just can't help themselves so they creep back in, try to stir some drama and then slink away again with their little dialogues and plots ignored back to that stinky place from whence they came.
Design and create your ideal life, tomorrow isn't promised - galenkp [Original and AI free]
Image(s) in this post are my own
You'd think it wouldn't be so hard to understand, and it isn't. But a lot of the people who complain are disingenuous at the core, and can't be trusted.
When I think of people like this I can't help thinking of Grima Wormtongue from LoTR, the look, voice and overall greasy cuntishness.
Even today I heard complaints about DV, and these people equate that to censorship. It is simply hard for people to understand that you can’t do censorship at the blockchain level
It's weird that people don't seem to understand that, but can clearly understand how to engage in activities that draw rewards in with little effort being expended and then extract them all without a care to supporting the community in any way at all.
A conundrum indeed. 🙄
They aren't very bright. So they just latch on to what ever inflammatory rhetoric they think will serve them best. Wankers.
It is funny though that almost all of them are still posting on hive under their own or alt accounts because they just can't give up those sweet dollar rewards instead of the pennies on Blurt 😂😂
Yeah, as we've seen so many times behaviour like this always seems to follow a set path and has a foregone conclusion. It's such entitled behaviour. Blurt, fucken hell man, what a joke it is (and they know it) and yet they come back to Hive trying to entice others to go there too...probably to help them justify their own bad decision to go there themselves. Laughable really.
What's really funny is the way they insist they did nothing wrong, that the "censorship on Hive" and downvotes are responsible. And yet, because there is no censorship all their bad behaviours are there to be seen forever! It makes me wonder how these people get through their real lives...but then again, they probably don't do very well there either I suppose.
Don't forget, not only did they not do anything wrong they also powered down and sold at the top so fuck you Hive! 🤣🤣🤣
I genuinely believe that the thing that holds back Blurt is the "cabal" of Hive Haters filling up its chats and airwaves with what is currently happening on Hive
Imagine joining a platform and starting to contribute and seeing some of the larger or most influential stakeholders constantly obsessing about what was happening on some other platform. It would put you right off and I think it has put people off there. They keep selling the "No Downvote Button" as a major feature without ever thinking is this a feature that newcomers dreadfully care about or is it in fact just something that bitter, disgruntled ex-hivers care about and I tell you what, that is a small pool to fish from!
But speaking of what a joke it is, you know they don't have any engagement there? Well, they do now as they have started up an AI bot to write facile comments on every single fucking post, HAHAHAHAHAHA. You couldn't make it up.
Oh yeah, I forgot that, how dare I!
Yep, that's a good point about the Hive detractors over there...makes it look like shit, although I should clarify...more shit than it already looks.
I've never seen Blurt to be honest, I have no desire to either. But that's a good point you make, new people be like, dafuq is all this Hive hating and downvotes talk. I guess it might make them come over to Hive and take a look and maybe stay.
These people [insert their names here] are all the same, probably been fringe-dwellers their whole lives, never fitted in, socially inept and awkward, selfish, lack of self-esteem and confidence...the same old story and so it goes.
There's a lot wrong with Hive (AI fucken hate that they added AI tools for instance, but it's the engagement and relationships [insert legit people's names here] that make me feel protective of it and I feel no remorse in exercising my right to do so. You're the same, and if only others did the same, exercised their downvotes when required it'd be an even better place.
Aye, it's a fucking bin fire for sure.
I like to forget it exists then some fucking neck beard swamp dweller tries to stir up shit and I go have a look.
I never stay too long, makes me feel unclean 😀😀
🤣You've just described half of my neighbors
NOTE: I do not have a neck beard and I am high 'n dry on a sandbar😁
I think I have also described half of the IT people I work with 🤣🤣
I would be missed devastated if you had a neck beard!!
Nothing like the refreshing feeling of being sprayed with a fire hose then scrubbed down with a stiff bristled yard broom after having visited Blurt huh? I can only imagine what it's like over there, all that whining and bitching and moaning. A real cesspool.
Those with their pea size brain can't tell the difference between censorship and their account being muted or blacklisted. There's nothing or no one to stop them posting or their content being seen by others if they're muted or blacklisted. All readers need to do is an additional click on the content to see it. Not the end of the world.
Yep, indeed. They make a big song and dance though, whine like little babies and then start spitting vitriolic comments...and then I address it, hard. Same old story, it'll happen again because people don't learn...or just because people are people.
I can't add anything new to what's already been said, so here's my two cents, or words as the case may be:
Fuck 'em
You can't change a person's mind, when they are convinced they're right
Indeed, my take on it exactly, which is why I do what I do. I often say things like, I'm not asking you to change your ways, you have the freedom to act as you will. But so does everyone else. They don't get it though. They see the downvote and spazz out, offer reprisals, call names, get abusive...all of which has ne effect on me at all.
I'd be more upset about you (or someone like you) who I like telling me you'll not engage with me anymore than I would by reprisal name-calling by some asshole who calls me a racist white trash Nazi. Name calling, due to my experiences as a kid, has no effect on me at all, other than firm up my resolve...which is already at a high level.
Stripping all the fluff away it comes down to something you say often...take responsibility for your own actions, which those downvote deniers won't. They won't or can't read the instructions and feel like they should be exempt from following them. I know you try to help folks, but honestly, sometimes you just can't help no matter how hard you try. Plus, the repeated attempts zap your patience.
You are firm in your resolve and comfortable in your own skin and that is hella sexy..don't change for nobody!
Ownership is something most don't know how to do or do properly and so we're left in a world of entitlement and poor behaviour.
I'll admit to losing patience with some who should know better and then dealing with them quite abruptly but I try not to...unless it's warranted, however when they start pushing a little in pretty decisive and will drop Thor's hammer as required. It's been a tactic I've used in the real world when needed and to good advantage.
Thanks for your last. I think a lot of the time it's. It seen the way you see it in the weak society in which we live that promotes selfishness, greed and mediocrity. People have become good at all three.
I agree with the weak society we live in, yet I see veins of people living with such strength of will and purpose that it gives me hope that society as a whole will turn around, but will it be soon enough? Time will tell, and I may well not be here by then. In the meantime, we do our best, no?
Exactly as I feel. It is often difficult to stand, to maintain a stance, in this world that consistently promotes and delivers mediocrity in all things. So far I've refused to give in and I don't think that will change but there's things that force it, probably why I hold fast so strongly to those things I'm able to uphold I guess. I'll be gone when it all falls totally apart (happening already really) and that'll be ok, I don't think it'll be a nice world in the not too distant future.
For now, I'm resolute where I can be and try not to spazz the fuck out about the things in which I'm forced to play along.
lol isn't spazzing out a new Olympic sport? The things we cannot change have to be endured....until they aren't.
And if you still think censorship is thing on HIVE please become educated to the fact that everything lives on in the block log. You can even search it through various web-front ends that aren't even peakd, hive.blog, or what ever other nice "renderer" you use in your browser to look at, and interact with stuff on HIVE.
Hive Projects has a whole list, but to save you a few clicks:
(and here's an example of my accounton one of these explorers)
https://www.hiveblockexplorer.com/
https://hivexplorer.com/
If you can read and type, you can interact with these things, and even (gasp!) go back and see people's edit history.
Just like the line below:
And now it doesn't.
Look:
HISTORY:
I don't get it, why don't people understand that there's no censorship on Hive but here's the proof huh?
I've used this a few times back when people have said something very hateful to me and then decided they crossed a line or regret it and subsequently delete it...nope, I screenshot it as you've done above and drop it on one of their own posts to show everyone...forever. Lol.
I don't want to insult the intelligence of horses, but an old adage says that they can be lead to water. Then something might happen. Or it might not.
I've found cats are the same.
I've known horses that were smarter than some people. But yeah, I get your point.
We call that here
Desperate attempts to get attention by making a drama out of something they are not even right about.
Just a bad show.
Yep, that's a good way to describe it; sad, but of course, it's a choice they make and there's always better choices right?
I like to think there is always a better choice even better than the best we made. As a circumstance could always be worse.
Well said.
Thanks
That person in the example paints himself as the victim and he might as well be a victim of his bad behavior. Not knowing the rules of a community is one thing but refusing to follow it even after given a chance to correct it show a complete disrespect to everyone in that community. I remember that guy even dv other people even though they never dv him just because they comment on your post.
He certainly was the victim of his own bad behaviour and got exactly what he deserved.
Yep, he thought he was being clever by downvoting others I'd upvoted...again it earned him exactly what he deserved and I'd do it again.
It's clear that censorship is one thing, anarchy is another, abuse is another, and stupidity is another. I see it simply: if you want to post in a Hive community, make sure you follow that community's rules. If you don't agree, post directly on your blog, in another community, or better yet, go fuck yourself somewhere else and leave those who do follow them alone. It's not censorship, it's rules, two very different things.
I was reading your comment and got to the go fuck yourself part and it made me grin! Well said indeed.
Hahaha, the truth is that since I wrote it in Spanish it was more subtle but no matter how much I tried to soften it in English the translators always came up with the same thing, so I decided to leave it, I'm glad it wasn't offensive.
Nah, not offensive at all.
The accounts that talk the most (aka creates drama) about DV or censorship on Hive are always the ones that abuse Hive the most; that's an unwritten rule. It never fails.
The stats are there: Hive helps people grow all over the world, not just through money, but through knowledge, providing a platform to express yourself with hardly any initial cost. With great power comes great responsibility. If you do things wrong, like in the case you mentioned, what right do you have to talk about censorship or DV if you did things wrong?
If you do things well on Hive, you get rewarded; if you do poorly, then just go to another platform—it's simple
I agree, and well said. These folks are entitled thoihh and that feeling of self-importance and entitlement often blinds them to the facts and truth. It must suck to be them, to have to live like that laying blame on others for their own failings.
It would be easy enough to take the public Hive code and tweak it to create a site that doesn't hide any posts or comments. It could even not show the downvotes. The main feed would be pretty crap though as there is a lot of spam that is generally dealt with.
I've seen many people come here and just complain when they get what they see as criticism for not doing what is generally accepted. Hive is small and if you piss off the wrong people then it tends to be game over. There are people with big stakes and strong opinions who answer to nobody. That doesn't mean you can't be controversial, but be prepared for the consequences.
We all have choices and are free to make them, just the same as in the real world. If I chose to rob an old lady on the street because I wanted her money I'd receive attention from the law and negativity from the community. If I chose to help her across the street I'd receive her thanks. Same time and place, same old lady, different personal choices...and I'd have to accept the ramifications of the choice I made.
I guess with Hive people have those same choices: Be controversial, humorous, friendly, argumentative, standoffish, spam, self-vote, reward farm, abusive, kind, put in effort or none. That's the freedom of it and we all have that freedom.
Hive is the wild west and anything goes. I want to see people enjoy it and find new ways to engage.
Yeah, and many do. I really enjoy the relationships I have, the small group of chaps I engage with on Discord, several others on Hive as well, all valued. It's the only thing that keeps me here really, and I've felt that way since the beginning. People can be destructive though, especially when they perceive a personal loss, and humans can make some very bad decisions...which often have future implications.
I think that I have only seen people unhappy about downvotes. It didn't occur to me that people see other things on Hive as censorship as well...They are basically sitting on the tree and cutting the branch that they sitting on. and then they fall it is someone else fault. Fucking idiots.
People need to use their downvotes more freely, IMO, without fear of retribution. We need to move away from downvotes being perceived as a personal attack, and instead "I think these pending rewards belong to every other user on the chain, instead of this specific piece of content".
It would encourage people to uh, "work" for their rewards, and do things on the chain with intent, which can prevent spam.
If it drives people away, are those the sorts of people we'd want to have on the chain and in our "blockchain social network" anyway?
yes you are probably right. Part of me is scared to drive people away because we have too little users already. But perhaps driving them away would benefit Hive more than having them spam some BS.
People whine and complain about all sorts of things, mostly when they feel they've lost something I suppose, certainly that's the case here...Lost "income" social standing, ego and so on...It's nuts really and mostly ends in a predictable place.
You Explained it so well here that a third grader can understand it.
But those you speak of...
Are NOT as smart as 3rd grade school children.
I read in one of their nonsensical ramblings that...
"Voices that DESERVE to be heard are being silenced..."
Is that not the heart of their mental illness?
They sign in to HIVE thinking they are DESERVING of something...
Mental illness indeed, well said.
Thinking back on that whole thing, a simple, "sorry I'll edit into English" would have meant my upvote and that account would still be moving along rather than in the fucken toilet.
Ego? Mental illness? I just don't get why a person can't just admit to their own mistakes and want to repeat them over and over.
#fuckennuts
Freedom of choice is not freedom from consequences. They're being downvoted cause the community doesn't want them here.
I'd personally be embarrassed and apologetic if I posted in a community without making sure I hit their guidelines.
I like that phrase a lot. Nice one.
I don't mind people making errors in my communities, I usually let them know and allow them to edit, and everyone moves on happy; it's when they get snarky, arrogant and entitled that I chime in with some "Thor"s Hammer" action. I'm not one to tolerate that sort of thing in my real life and am not inclined to entertain it on the Blockchain.
It can happen that someone unintentionally mistakes the terms of posting in communities...
I was sent back a couple of times to re-read the rules 😁 but for someone to ignore the rules of the community owner, that is the absence of a general culture.
Derogatory communication is already a matter of vulgar behavior.
You made a nice comparison with your home and the rules in it.
"You won't follow the rules of my house? Get lost outside!"
I remember, some time ago, when probably the account you mention, was giving me negative votes on the comments I left on your post.
For no reason, just to be naughty.
A fool.
I don't understand that someone has the will to move around communities and violate the rules of the communities, calling for hate speech.
Or to go to communities (others') and distribute some justice.
Well, if you think you're the boss, create your own community, boost your account enough that others have an incentive to join, and then be the sheriff in your home... If you think you have like-minded people...
Yeah, mistakes happen but when someone calls me a cunt because I enforce the rules in my own communities...well, that's going to get addressed. You clearly understand and agree.
I remember that person downvoting users who commented to me (to get at me I suppose) and I thought, yep, now you've reached rock bottom. People can be so stupid.
I like your create your own community comment. I even said that to that individual early on but he just wanted to escalate matters. Well, he escalated them so far that he has a -11 rep.
Play silly games, you'll win silly prizes huh?
It's true a mistake can happen when publishing, one forgets a rule or just is used to double language for example, once you make him notice, the normality would be "oh sorry I'll fix it", but no some have just such a low IQ that can't have civil manners and start brags for no reason, in that case when they start insult you, I think you shouldn't even bother but just immediately mute and put on ignore, it's literally not worth waste 1 second to read the insults going on
I agree to mute who flames in a community, it just make it look bad
Downvotes, well it's kinda tough, one it's free to do what he wants, hive let's you free to do literally anything... I can downvote because I don't like your profile image, I don't like the topics discussed or just I opened hive blog at i want to downvote someone for the sake of it, does that makes sense? No but it's the full freedom of hive...
It's always fun when people say they are being censored or banned lol, everything is on chain, one can even make a post every 5 minutes all days posting "dumb who reads" and no one can prevent that
I think that anyone who mentions a downvote they received or asks why they got it is a fucken idiot. They are best ignored completely...but if course, so many take it personally and spaz the fuck out which, of course, never goes well. Anyway, people are fee to do what they want and if that's an upvote, a downvote, mute or whatever then that's their choice. But...they have to accept other have the same freedkmg and if that means a downvote then that's how it is. No point whining like a little baby.
hive journey is required consistency & Quality content, who doesn't have patience and their only aim to earn money soon, they talk about shit like Censorship and Lack of Freedom etc
Yes indeed, exactly right. Thanks for your input.
If someone does not like a community and its rules simply do not post there, each community has its rules as if they were houses to enter, if they are not met then out, that is not sensura is to apply a rule. Let him go to another community, there are infinite. But people are stubborn...
Yes, but if someone did the wrong thing in a community you own would you mute and downvote them?
I would silence him, if he behaved as he did in yours with disrespect for the rules I would silence him.
I definitely think that in many cases how I am going to react to something is based about 90% on how the other person acts. Did you own it? Did you try to justify it or retaliate in return? It's pretty sad when people double down on their bad behavior. That's often quite telling about where their original intentions were.
People need to realise that freedom to act is everyone's to use and yet I think the bad actors fail to remember or understand that. They act badly and get addressed and then get upset about someone else applying freedom to their bad acts? Fucken bonkers. If more people took ownership and used their downvotes against bad actors they'd disappear faster and cause less damage. But people don't because they're afraid of repercussions I guess. Pathetic.
I believe that the downvote has been misinterpreted in some cases. For example, I once received a downvote for misusing a tag, and that was not a negative thing for me, but it helped me to improve my choice of tags for my posts. Otherwise, I think that rules within a community are necessary and give more dignity and presentation to the work that we want to show ☺️.
My communities are something that takes up my personal time and with that being the case I feel it's acceptable to want them to be places that look and feel how I'd like them to and so I make sure rules are followed. If a person doesn't want to follow them they have the choice of not posting there or accepting the consequences of their choice not to follow the rules. It's all quite simple.
This makes me think of the idea that "everyone can be welcome in my home, but obviously no one can come into your home and question your rules". It's very easy to understand
Yep, that's the example I used in my post above, sort of. There's always implications for how a person acts. Rob a bank in the real world and there's an implication right?
Thanks for explaining what censorship really means . I agree on muting or downvotes isn't the same as censorship since the content is still there.
No worries, happy to be of assistance.
Congratulations @galenkp! You have completed the following achievement on the Hive blockchain And have been rewarded with New badge(s)
You can view your badges on your board and compare yourself to others in the Ranking
If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word
STOP