How did everyone get paid?

in #hive12 days ago

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Most of the day yesterday, I spent working for Hive—though not necessarily on the blockchain itself. I feel there's a need for more dialogue before I truly find my allies here. The truth is, most people haven’t spent the amount of time I have thinking about the value proposition of cryptocurrencies. So when I present a solution, they seem a little confused.

As with many things, education is key. It’s almost as if I have to first show them how they’ve been getting screwed—pour salt in the wounds, even—before I can explain how we might take back our agency. The process isn’t simple, and I’d say it’s quite delicate. You’re, in a way, attempting to shatter their worldview. That’s never easy, and almost never welcome.

That said, I’m fine-tuning my storytelling. I feel like I’m reaching a point where I can identify what line of discussion to take, depending on the person in front of me. Intuitive? Yes. But I submit to you that most people have one “sales pitch,” so to speak, and use it like a hammer—regardless of whether they’re dealing with a screw.

The first in what I hope will be a valuable collection of videos on Philosophy of the Economy went up on my blog last night. I don’t know yet if this account is best suited for Spanish content, but alas, that’s a puzzle piece I’m still figuring out.

The video touches on El Salvador’s Bitcoin triumphs—and also its shortcomings.

Now, I respect President Bukele. I celebrate most everything he’s done for his country. But I’m not blind to the fact that Chivo Wallet—his attempt to Bitcoinize the common folk—somewhat failed.

Most people, when given thirty dollars worth of Satoshis, will simply swap it for local currency. It makes sense. Honestly, any other reaction would’ve surprised me.

There’s a story I share on my Spanish vlog—one I believe is essential to understanding how money really works. It goes a little something like this:

The $100

A man arrives at a hotel he sees in the distance. He’s considering staying there, so he talks to the receptionist. Says he needs to feel the vibes of the place before deciding.

The receptionist says that’s fine, but he’ll need to leave a $100 security deposit to explore the premises. The man agrees, leaves the money, and wanders off.

A second man—blue-collar type—walks in. Turns out he’s the electrician who’d been fixing the place the day before. He’s here to collect payment. The receptionist, smiling, pays him—the same $100.

The electrician heads home, happy. He plops down on his old couch to watch some TV, when there’s a knock on the door. It’s his landlord. Time to pay rent.

So the electrician gives him the $100 he just received. The landlord nods, satisfied, and leaves.

Driving home, the landlord spots the hotel. His daughter’s birthday is coming up, and there’s a ballroom there—perfect for the occasion. He goes in, reserves the space, and pays the deposit: $100. The receptionist puts the money (yes, the same $100) back in the drawer.

Not long after, the first man returns. He’s decided not to stay. He asks for his deposit back, and the receptionist, obliging, returns the very same $100.

As you continue reading my ramblings this morning, keep that story in mind—and ask yourself one question:

How did everyone get paid?


Along Comes Hive

I realize my position—that Bitcoin isn’t particularly useful as real money—ruffles feathers. I’m also aware there’s a white paper that says I’m wrong. But the truth is, things change. Concepts evolve. We have to keep up.

Hive, on the other hand, doesn’t carry the same baggage Bitcoin does. And more importantly, the people who join our peaceful revolution can learn something truly valuable along the way.

They can learn how to fish.

You know the saying: Give a man a fish and he’ll eat for a day; teach him to fish and he’ll feed himself for life. Or something like that. Becoming a Hivean is precisely that.

We show people how to generate value. How to “feed themselves.” How to synergize with others. How to build communities. How to create parallel economies.

You get my point.

This isn’t about dropping tokens on people and watching them sell them for cash. If it were, I wouldn’t be here. Why? Because while everyone likes free money, that’s not an economy. That’s just a little gift. (Which is fine, but let’s not pretend it’s a revolution.)

I think I’ll leave this ramble here. It’s already a long post, and I suspect most people will tune out before the end. But before I go, let me remind you of the question I posed earlier.

How did all those people get paid?

MenO

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Neat illustration of the circulation of money for sure.

The one issue I have with Hive vs Bitcoin is the unlimited supply vs limited. It may be a shallow view but knowing there is a finite number of bitcoins to be minted makes me think of value in terms of supply and demand. The supply is limited and demand is increasing so the value will appreciate. With Hive, the supply is always increasing and is infinite so the demand can only boost the value short term as the infinite supply will always deflate the value. Like a government printing extra money depreciates the value of each dollar.

I know not directly related to your subject but got me thinking of the BTC vs Hive debate. I do love Hive for the 3-second, feeless transactions and open distribution which makes it more like money than BTC. Can't buy groceries with a gold bar but socking disposable income into that still is a good investment historically speaking. Perceived value vs transactional value.

Inflation is necessary, it would seem, for money to move. This is why Hive can become "real money". Letting go of it, using it for things and services. I realize people hate it when in these discussions we use words like "the experts" but it doesn't hurt to listen to their theories.

Its estimated that a 2 to 3 percent inflation on an economic model makes the most sense. It motivates the spending, thus creating movement, which my little story clearly illustrates is necessary. A non inflationary system on the other hand, works amazingly to store long term value.

This is precisely why when people tell me: Bitcoin is the new gold - I nod in agreement. It very well may be the case. But, the common folks don't own gold, nor would use it if they did. Nobody is buying a loaf of bread with gold bars.

If we are "to win" we need to solve the money problem, not the gold problem. The latter being debatable to be honest.

I would give you another big upvote for your amazing comment my friend, but if you look at my voting power, you would notice it's destroyed to nothing. (explained in another post).

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Haha I don't do this for the upvotes so don't worry about that. Love the store of value vs money intel.


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This post, and all the comments you've gotten read just like Heinlein's chess game out of his book, For Us, The Living. He tries to describe a system of capitalism whereby the values and profits are balanced by intervention of various parties. In my opinion (and given it was written in 1939) its a flawed piece of writing.

At the end of the day, fiat and anything else used as a means of transfer, even a barter system, only has value because people believe that it has equal or greater value to whatever it is they're trading it for.

I suppose that's why inflation is there, to make people value objects and items that they need for their continued survival, so that the medium of transfer is worth less (not worthless!) and keeps the whole hamster wheel going.

At the risk of sounding vexatious, maybe it is just the SPS flywheel in another form ;)

At the risk of sounding vexatious, maybe it is just the SPS flywheel in another form ;)

LOL

You might be right....


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How did all those people get paid?

They provided value and were compensated with a form of value they were familiar with and willing to accept.

This is why it's crucial to:

  • build cryptocurrency hubs. Places where people and businesses can trade with their favorite digital assets. Education is
    Key to make this happen.
  • develop VSC so that users can exchange value in Dash, Monero, Lightning, etc, while the HIVE protocol powers it all from underneath.

I see a future where crypto economies can form. It's multiple web3 doing what they do best and working together, not one chain to rule them all (as toxic maxis seem to believe).

In a future where liquidity pools are as plentiful as they are easy to use, I could see everything being tokenized. I can even imagine a LaundryCoin being used in laundromats and what not.

I too feel quite bullish with VSC around the corner. I feel like it's going to remove a ton of friction, and thus open up the gates for businesses to hop on.

This is a fantastic and much-needed discussion. The money "as a circulating medium" idea is perfectly illustrated by your $100 story, which is often overlooked but crucial.

And your comparison of Bitcoin's utility vs. Hive's 'teach them to fish' approach is incredibly compelling. It's exactly that empowerment and value generation that makes HIve so powerful beyond mere speculation. I am looking forward to your 'Philosophy of the Economy' videos.

thank you very much for the kind words.

Hey Meno,
I really enjoyed reading this post. You explained something that could be super complex in a way that feels clear, real, and even kind of fun to follow. It’s cool how you broke it down How people get paid on Hive? and the challenges around it.

Honestly, I could feel the care you put into this. It’s not just about numbers or systems, it’s about fairness, value, and how communities like this can grow stronger together.

Give a man fish 🐠 he will eat for a day ..teach him how to fish he will feed himself for life. Nice quote.. thank you for teaching me how to fish 🙏

We call that this an economy! Pay for good and services with finical instrument like lending aka the first '$100'. This is what banks do they lend out deposits for a return however the hotel never got the return and actually lost money because the guest could of needed services if he disrupted a room or something along that line.

I think you are on to something. So who was "the bank" in this case? Who still owes?

Thank you for the thoughtful response brother.

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Money circulates all the time, but if people get value from their transactions then that's fine. People who come to Hive and just cash out may find they don't make much unless they bring some value. That can take many forms. The human element is important as otherwise we could just have bots generating posts and voting. That would be a sad outcome.

Very correct my friend, but its up to us "old flatulencians" to show them how to be Hiveans.

They all got paid by creating value, the money is just the common agreement that makes it possible to divide the labour, making specialization possible, which again has created all of modern, tech based civilization.

I've been thinking a bit of the ossification of Bitcoin versus Hive the past days, I'll write something soon, but might need a couple of weeks to ponder on it.

My thinking in short is that Bitcoin might become digital gold for real, and with that comes problems: it simply won't be as liquid. So it won't really drive a new, alternative economy at all.

If it was destined for that there would be way more than ~5000 Bitcoin in the Lightning network, the number has even been going down a bit...

Yet it works for now, so there will be some time to rotate into Monero, physical gold, cash, stablecoins or Hive too of course!

Maybe we should do a long form conversation and slap it in one of your videos. You are a hyperthinker which, in my opinion, is the only way these thoughts get truly polished.

Thanks, yeah absolutely! I'm up for close to anything like that :-)

I'll get around to updating my contact info here, its been very messy the past years since I ended up in a bit of an impossible situation. Moving around a lot the next years will solve that, which of course leads me to actually experience a lot of things that are very relevant to this!

Your illustration shows the difference between Keyenaian (or even MMT) analysis of money velocity, modern banking, and real exchange.

The deposit holder committed fraud by using the deposit to pay a debt. The money the hotel owed the electrician should have come from a different fund, not a deposit. That money belongs to the depositor.

The landlord provides shelter and maintenance. We could discuss the pitfalls here, but a service with value was rendered and paid. Likewise, when the landlord seeks use of a space on the hotel, the service was paid.

Then, when the depositor returns, the fraud has been remedied to a degree, but the funds remain improperly allocated. The hotel has profited by not paying the electrician in the first place. Had the specific situation described not occurred, and the landlord gone anywhere else at all, they would have had to pay from the funds owed to the electrician.

This is getting into the weeds of accounting and econo.oc analysis, but there remains something incomplete in your illustration.

I will say any token for exchange must be perceived as valuable first on order for people to use it as money. HIVE adds value within our Blockchain. Bitcoin volatility has made it seem like a gamble, and people suffering poverty have a very high time preference for immediate problems instead of saving, investing, and participating in a long-term project.

please forgive my weak vote... I'm taking some safety precautions at the moment, and thus...

That said.. You are on point (as usual) the receptionist did commit fraud. That said, I was trying to focus on something else, and of course, you laid it out nicely.

I Luv that Story about how Everyone Got paid.

Reminds me of the 3 Stooges

I love this bid!! hahahahahah

Amazing moral of the Story...Great 👍🏻

PIZZA!

$PIZZA slices delivered:
@danzocal(8/10) tipped @meno

Come get MOONed!